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Tapestry Thursday Swing Dance Lessons
Post new topic   printer-friendly   Reply to topic    MinnesotaLindy.COM Forum Index -> Lindy Lessons and instruction Goto page Older  1, 2, 3, 4  Newer
 
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NickCruse
The Negrotiator


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:31 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Knowing what good leading feels like doesn't mean you can teach good technique.

I had dinner at the french laundry a few months ago. Wow, I can tell Thomas Keller is a good chef, doesn't mean I can go whip it up in my kitchen.
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Allen Hall
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nick,

Well put, dance mechanics and technique are different for leads and follows. And, I dig the analogy.

As for Lois' rather sexist comment, in my experience, one of the very best ever teachers of LH follower mechanics and technique was a man. He came into the Twin cities periodically during the '90s to teach. His first name was Craig--can't remember his last name.

Allen Hall
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donnay
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Allen Hall wrote:
Nick,

one of the very best ever teachers of LH follower mechanics and technique was a man. He came into the Twin cities periodically during the '90s to teach. His first name was Craig--can't remember his last name.

Allen Hall


I remember Craig too! He was from L.A., and came in once a month. I took quite a few lessons from him. He could really follow well! Another local teacher who turns out good follows is Jay, and again, he is a superb follower. My point is that too many male teachers don't learn how to follow, and I think that's a shame. A female teacher wouldn't get very far not learning how to lead.
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Azeroth
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Is this the justification for there not being a male instructor yet in the Tapestry Rotation? You and Esther lead well enough?
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donnay
Swingout


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Azeroth wrote:
Is this the justification for there not being a male instructor yet in the Tapestry Rotation? You and Esther lead well enough?


I have a guy assisting me, and I think Esther does too. I can't speak for Tapestry about how they are selecting instructors.

I just had to defend women teachers, because they often get short shrift - yes, you caught me on a sore spot. I have seen so many talented, knowledgeable female teachers marginalized when they bring in a guy to demo. Students who don't think of themselves as sexist may automatically gravitate to the man, even though he may have far fewer skills. Just sayin...

OK, this snark stuff is just not as fun as I thought it would be....
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NickCruse
The Negrotiator


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nina, Frida, Janice, Sylvia, Caitlin, Niki, Cindy, Nicole F, Jenn S, Margo, Dawn, Debbie, Ramona, Jojo...Just off the top of my head. I don't think any of those ladies have really been "marginalized" by teaching by themselves or with a lead.

While I am in no way downgrading the art of following, lord knows I have tried and it is AMAZINGLY hard. But leading is a completely different skill set. Having a lead who completely understands the art of leading is imperative. Having somebody who can "go through the motions" will only engrain bad habits early on that will take months if not years of practice to rectify later.

Yes you know what a good lead feels like but on a basic swing out:
~ do you cross your feet in front or in back? why?
~what is the importance of where your toe faces on count 5?
~Where is your elbow on counts 2-5?
~what is the difference in my forearm on 5-6 in a whip vs a push whip? how does this affect the follows direction of the whip?
~what does my right foot do on step two?
~where is my head on 4? on 5?
~what happens if my wrist dips out on 1? in on 2?

These are all super important and I, for one, don't believe that can be truly taught by somebody who "knows what a good lead feels like" vs. somebody who "knows why their lead feels good."

Just my 2 cents.
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Allen Hall
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nick,

You underestimate; that's worth a hellovalot more than two cents.

Allen
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Swingmegg
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

pretty much REALLy wants a LIKE button for Nicks last post!
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Azeroth
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Swingmegg wrote:
pretty much REALLy wants a LIKE button for Nicks last post!

... it could be done... but that would be a lot of like buttons!
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kitkat
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NickCruse wrote:
Nina, Frida, Janice, Sylvia, Caitlin, Niki, Cindy, Nicole F, Jenn S, Margo, Dawn, Debbie, Ramona, Jojo...Just off the top of my head. I don't think any of those ladies have really been "marginalized" by teaching by themselves or with a lead.


Although most of them have been under-hired on their own merits, compared to men.
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Jason Z
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://jsalmonte.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/body-roles-lindy-hop-statistics-by-gender-magnified/
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Jason Z
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

http://jsalmonte.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/lindy-hop-instructor-statistical-pornography/
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UptownSport
Swingout


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Lois & male instructor went through nearly each of nick's points- and yes, she had a 'guy' with her.

I can't say TCSwing went through each ...

Upshot: I got more from her instruction than previous instructors.
I'm extremely impressed with her insight-You folks have nothing here to denigrate. She (they) did an exceptional job. period

I also like Lois's attitude. Smile

I'm frightened by the tone of the posts, it seems you wouldn't have anything good to say no matter the reality. Did any of you attend the lessons? If anyone would like to talk to me directly, I'm more than glad to meet, sometimes ideas get lost through the keyboard.
I'm at Famous Dave's Uptown every Monday, Wednesday I'm at Lee's. I usually go to Tapestry. Lets chat.
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Allen Hall
MN Prince of Snark Darkness


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Jason,

Amazing detailed analysis*. Some of my convictions supported, some exploded. I am astounded by the ubiquity and strength of International Lindy Hop.

Thank you.

Allen Hall

* One picky comment--he missed or omitted Camp Hollywood.NJC. I seem to recall they also have a big faculty of instructors.
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UptownSport
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Share topic on FB Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I'd also note that it's sexist to assume that Lois or Women in general don't lead.
To believe only a man can know is basely wrong.
I note women doing a very effect job of this, the couple doing as well as a mixed couple.

This site is rather frightening.
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